He overcame being bedridden at sixteen, then started his own business where he realized that he’d rather be happy than super rich. This is Erno Hannink‘s story.
TAMAR: Hi, everybody, I have somebody who’s awesome. He lives in the Netherlands. So cool. We’re getting some more global representation as we go along through this podcast. I think it’s Episode 40. Yes, I love doing these and my number is like, I don’t know how old I am these days. I don’t know the date. It’s March on 2020, and 23rd. I don’t know. So basically, that’s the same idea. So, thank you so much for joining Erno Hannink. Did I pronounce right?
ERNO HANNINK: Yes. Yes. That’s okay.
TAMAR: Awesome. Yes.
ERNO HANNINK: Thank you very much.
TAMAR: Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much for coming. tell us a little bit about who you are. And your story. It’s, it’s I guess it’s your own story. It ties into our theme here the rise above adversity a little bit. So, tell me a little bit about that. I know you’ll have a different story to share as well. But give us a little bit of the, I don’t know bird’s eye view of like, your history and where you are and how you became to where you are today.
ERNO HANNINK: Yes, I am in the Netherlands. I’ve been born there and live in a city which is close to Arnhem, which some people might know from A Bridge Too Far, which is a movie about the Second World War, which was a breaking point in freeing the Netherlands from Germans , took half a year to finally clear that breaking point. It’s a thing as part of history. So that’s maybe you know that. Anyway, I’ve been in marketing and sales, most of my career, and been working for several companies until 2006 when I started my own business. Always independent. So, no employees; working with freelancers, though. Still today, that didn’t work for me. And the thing was, when I was in my last job, I was in marketing and sales and I started blogging. I followed Darren Rowse from Australia from ProBlogger.net And, yeah, he put up his post about how you could make money with your blog if you are a smart man. Yeah.
TAMAR: So, let me talk about that really quickly. When you did it early it was a lot more lucrative. A lot of people do it. And they’re riding the wave. And it’s much harder now. And then when they did it in 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009. So, not saying nothing shouldn’t be. It’s harder.
ERNO HANNINK: So, when I did that at that time, I had a blog called Enthusiasm and I’ve heard about all kinds of stuff, and automation and home videos. Also, about marketing and all kinds of stuff. I’ve heard about and had these ads. He said, “You need to this ad; this ad, you need to do it this way.” And I thought, “Okay, this could be a way that I could just break free and start on my own and just use the blog as a way of income.” I didn’t get income; I didn’t get to a way good income that I could support my family. And it was like 1000 euros per month, which I think was pretty okay at the time.
TAMAR: Yeah. I mean, it’s so much harder nowadays. So, you had that, but it was hard. Like, I don’t think I made money on my blog alone. I had to get business from my blog, the concept that I provided. So, it’s the same.
ERNO HANNINK: Yeah.
So, I learned splitting up the topics in the block into separate blocks. So that was a turning point for me. So having this big block with every topic on it, and just moving away some of the topics to separate blocks. For example, just focusing on plasma television. At that point it was relevant then. And then add on that that worked. So that’s what I learned. Then I went to my boss, and I said, “Well, I think I should start a blog for our company.” And that was (for) the company but I still was responsible (for) marketing and sales. And I wasn’t very good at explaining how it worked. And it was pretty new. So, he says, “No, I don’t think so.” So, I said, “Well, okay, let me try it on my own time. I’ll do it on my own time. I just blog about this stuff, I make videos and I’ll do this stuff and see what happens. Within a month I was asked to be a guest, post, blogger kind of thing for a newsletter which was for a large part of our community for our clients. Within a month, I said this is it, this blogging, writing, publishing is important to make visible for me. I thought, So, for me, it was like I need to do this. So that was actually the turning point for me to say, “Okay, I need to go on my own, and find a way; figure out a way, how can I do this?” And I made the stupid mistake by just saying, “Okay, I’m freelancing now on marketing and SEO.” So, there was no focus on clients or market or whatever. It was just really broad. I had no idea. And before I was involved in marketing, I knew that you have to focus and target and do all this niche thing and everything. But once I started my own, everything got lost there. So, it took about two years before I had my first product that I could really sell. And that was based on the knowledge that I’ve gotten by blogging. So, I sold websites based on WordPress, helping people to write on their topic and publishing an email newsletter so that once a month they say no, so I had this package for them. And it charged a good amount of money for them. And I worked and helped them. So that was a good business. And then it was in 2008, I got an invitation to go to CES in Las Vegas. And before that, your Twitter was at that time 2008, 2007; it was easier to get in touch with a lot of people. And I got in touch with a lot of people and just say, “Hey, I’m in Vegas at CES. Do you want to meet up?” So, I met up with a lot of fitness bloggers, and I got introduced to Social Media Club and to WorkAmp. I met there with Liz Strauss. And with L’Oréal from Boston.
TAMAR: Well, I want to interrupt you just to kind of talk about this because, we seem to be in the same crowds, but we weren’t really on social media connected. She just passed away about two weeks ago, and there are a number of other people, but if you Google Lou Strauss, she’s one of these premier people for blogging and the people that you are connected to are the trendsetters in the industry. I think you see ebbs and flows because just 10 years ago, a lot of people are still riding this wave. But waves are kind of separating more. Like, I’m in a completely different trajectory. I’m on a different beach these days, but it’s really interesting. If you got out early, it helps a lot. It really worked very well in your favor. But you know, it’s super talking about what happened? Yeah, talk about that.
ERNO HANNINK: Yeah. So, at the event, I also met with Rohit Bhargava. And he had a book just published was his Personality Not Included, and I said, “Well, I can take a copy with me and see if I can get it published in Netherlands”. And on a train right back from the Amsterdam Airport to my own, I put on Twitter, “So is anybody interested in doing a work camp and that lens this year?” And a couple of people replied and says “yes, it’s really a great idea. Let’s do that.” So, and later on, I also contacted a couple of people saying, should we do a Social Club Amsterdam. Are you interested in doing it together with me? So, by the end of 2009, we had our first Social Eclipse in Amsterdam in December, and in September we had our first word camp which actually lists trials and law enforcement spoken. They stayed in my house for a week.
TAMAR: Yeah, your house looks really cool. I do have a view; we’re looking at each other right now. An orange wall, a bright blue door and this big whiteboard is a cool setup, man. I want to live in a house that’s colorful like that.
ERNO HANNINK: A matter of just a painting. Taking some time and you got creative and you get these good colors. It’s good blend of colors. I’m trying to think what color I know, some logo blend that’s like FedEx. Thank you.
ERNO HANNINK: It’s the Netherlands company called Cool Blue. They have similar kind of colors. Yeah, and the orange is the Gulf Coast, come from my company. Brand kind of style thing. But the orange included because I wanted to go internationally and use the Dutch orange color as a branding thing. Definitely happens, anyway. So, we organized these events and at one point of Netherlands have like 15 social media clips and 15 cities. At that point, it was really important for the market to inform businesses companies and these marketeers about how you can use social media. Of course, that is all gone in time. And what I learned is that these events are great, but they were all not my potential clients, it was all work that I did, just to give back to the community to just give back to people and meet new people. But it was all not my clients, because my clients were just independent professionals, they had their own business and no employees, and I wanted to help them. So, at some point, it was over for three, I think I did it for three years. Then it was I who quit, and I focused on the business. And he said at some point, okay, let’s go internationally and in English, and just quit the Dutch blog. And I did that. I launched an English product. One International Times Quantum Speed, that was it. The other ones all came from The Lens. We talked in English, but they were Dutch. And after nine months, I figured out “Okay, so this is not working. People are not moving from my Dutch side to my English side. So, let’s go back to the Dutch version, and just forget about the English version right now.” So that’s what happens to me all the time. I do these things that are on the frontline. And every time when it tends to be, if I had just pushed on, it would have probably grown a lot bigger because I was into Facebook for Business in 2009. Had a book promised for myself in 2010, about that topic, which was really early in the Netherlands.
ERNO HANINK: The people really made money with it by giving workshops and presentations and all this stuff about it. And they did that in 2014 or something like that. At that time, I already clicked that topic again, because I found another one. So that’s what I do I just jump on the new things. And every time when it starts to blow up, I’m already jumping on to the next thing. That’s it for me. It’s interesting but it’s also not a good way of making money.
TAMAR: Yeah, I kind of look retrospectively and I’m what I’m doing. I mean, I’m launching a perfume brand which is very appropriate for the pandemic timing. But it’s a lot difficult, more difficult to do this today than it was to potentially do it five or six years ago. Of course, it wasn’t on my radar to even consider five or six years ago. But the only thing I would say for myself is that I had always diversified my income. I was working with like three or four different clients, I always had like this one full time gig, and then everything else that kind of went and kind of was like spokes on my wheel here, if you will. And the one thing that I think my biggest challenge was the fact that I was always very comfortable with that main source of income. So, I didn’t want to take as big risk as I am right now, which is clearly the biggest risk I’m ever taking. And who knows, like you said, you took about two years, and you were trying to figure things out. I heard from a friend that they didn’t really hit their groove for four years. And I have to believe like, I have a cousin who came up to me last week, and she said, I don’t think this could ever be very big. And that’s her subtle way of saying, “You’re out of your mind,” which maybe I am. But if I did this five years ago, and I had the medium like Facebook for Business, I was leveraging it in the right way. Maybe it would have been like Cosmos urban fetch which are delivery systems that basically are like the Amazon Prime of today, if you will, for college students. They both went bankrupt, but like nowadays, their competitors are all doing really well. I just feel like the timing could have been better for that visibility, all that stuff. But I think it’s still the right time. But again, I was just too comfortable to take that big risk. And the only thing I would potentially say here is that if you feel like there’s something that’s just have that comfort of some sort of opportunity for someone versus first yourself, that’s going to make the huge difference. Because they’re not necessarily beholden to forever. You need to really kind of take the initiative in your hands and put your future into your hands instead of putting your future into somebody else’s hands. It’s like the Rich Dad Poor Dad mentality if you’re familiar with the book.
ERNO HANINK: Yeah. And I’m not sure about 100% agree, because I’ve been learning a lot of stuff about the topic that I’m working on today. Last few years is about decision making, how can you make better decisions as an entrepreneur. And the thing is that sometimes you’re just really lucky. If you make the right decision at the right time, you meet the right people in the right time, and then you have to produce at the right time. Then it booms and explodes. But it feels like that you are very knowledgeable, and you’re doing all the right stuff, because you make all the right decisions. But 90%, it’s just pure luck. So once this happens, you have a good product that you launch. And it’s really successful. You think it’s you as an entrepreneur, and the next one you launch may even get one as well, but the next time it doesn’t do well. So, you think you made a mistake, but has to do so much with the luck that’s unbelievable and hard work. Apparently, people think that’s the main reason why people get successful, which I don’t believe. I believe you have to just be in the right place at the right time. And if you try more things and then just sit back with the trademark things, the chance that you become lucky increases. Of course, that’s what I believe in.
TAMAR: I am completely in agreement with you. The challenge that I think exists for me is that the two things that I’m pinpointing is number one, if you’re too comfortable, and you’re not willing to take a risk, it might be the right time for that luck to come in. And number two, if I did this five years ago, it would have been a lot easier to capture the Facebook ad market. whereas today, it’s kind of beyond belief. And that competition, unfortunately, drives prices up and the cost per acquisition is extremely difficult. So just making my business makes sense is just extraordinary, difficult. That being said, I’m trying to disrupt a market, I’m trying to launch a fragrance brand for mental health. And there are more silo targeting features than ever today than there were back then that still, that being said, I still can’t reach the target audience. So, because it’s an education, a particular process. So that’s the difference.
ERNO HANINK: I agree. I think education is a different thing than advertising. Right? I’ve been watching a lot of videos and reading books of what’s his name, the wine guy?
TAMAR: Gary Vaynerchuk.
ERNO HANINK: Gary Vaynerchuk, right. He was at the forefront by Google ads, or Facebook ads by Instagram ads, but it also has to do with you having the guts to invest at the right time, and spending money on advertising, when other people didn’t. And I think that’s like you said, if you’re comfortable. You don’t take many risks. And I think that’s part of it. If you take more risks, then you attract more luck. The same goes for you because you’re different. Right. Your brand is different, but also the product you have is a different angle, than what’s normal in the market. It’s more about education than about using advertising channels. It’s enough of a topic maybe.
TAMAR: Yeah. Okay. Cool. So, keep going. Talk to me about your story. I want to get a little more about that from you.
ERNO HANNINK: Yeah. So, like I said before, I love finding new things and learning about it and sharing that stuff, writing blog posts about it, doing podcasts about it. I’ve been doing podcasts like I’m in Episode 270 right now. I’ve been five years or so, every week an episode. So, I’ve always been in the forefront of things and then other people slowly discovering it. But for me, it means I don’t make a lot of money from it. But that to me, it’s also not important. I mean, other people find it important, but I’m not one of those people that really find that important. I think that I’ve learned through this to be very smart with money. And I mean we still save; we have print products mortgaged back like 25% from what it used to be. So, if you compare that by renting a house now, we just live on almost for free. So, we’ll get all that why I had moments where I didn’t make a lot of money. So, I learned to cope with all these things. And like I said, stoicism is like a way of life for me where I learned to accept the things the way they come. That’s why I also think that luck is an important part. And that you have no influence of what’s coming towards you. You have no influence if you become sick, you have an influence who’s going to be the president, you have an influence of a Coronavirus, all this stuff.
ERNO HANINK: You’re all out of your control. The one thing that you do control of course, Aquinas philosophy, is that the way you respond to things. If Corona comes to you, you can be angry or upset, you can be saying, okay, this is an interesting period. That’s discovery, you can say, okay, this is time to relax, and to learn new stuff. So, there’s so many ways that you can use this period, in a good way, in a bad way. And it’s just up to you. It’s up to you how you respond to these things.
TAMAR: Yeah. And for free. I’m a big proponent of this Spotify, and I guess they’re an Apple Music, also fearless motivation. And that’s really what they preach. A lot of people kind of mentally give credence to the government. This is like, my life sucks because of the government, but it’s about how you respond to it, how you react to it. And to me, I certainly don’t have agreement with the world, the politics today. I have a neighbor around the block, around the corner, who’s like, vote Trump out, they literally have a yard sign that says vote Trump out. And right across the street from her is the biggest Trump thing ever. It’s just insane what we have here. And I say to myself, yeah, I agree, and I disagree and whatever, I’m kind of, like, I’m independent, if you will. I’m registered Republican, but I didn’t vote for Trump, I’ll put it that way. I’m not going to hide from that. But at the same time, I just feel like you give too much credibility. It’s like, you have to, you can’t deny that the government is there. But you can also change your future. It doesn’t have to be within, you could be 95% of the 1%, you could be the 1% that lives completely different, 99% that lives a completely different life. You don’t have to be fitting in a mold that’s based on your governmental policies. So, there’s a thing there. Go ahead, keep going.
ERNO HANINK: Yeah, I see. That’s the whole thing. I think that. Like I said when you asked, ”So do you agree with all this? Can you have a point? Now these three points that I’m asking you, and firstly, I don’t feel adversity in the way that most people feel like it. Because it is just part of life. It just happens. And it’s all about how you respond to it, if you make it a big deal in a positive or negative way. And like I said, I have made so many things in my business and didn’t make a lot of money at sunny moments. But I still am happy, I still don’t believe that it’s the most important thing that I need. And I still have a good life. I have a son and a daughter and the boy graduated. And we have a good life. So why is this that people are so frustrated? Like I don’t? I don’t worry about that. Because I don’t have to worry about it. So that’s a good thing. So that’s what I learned. And I think when I was 16, I had a couple of years back pains. Just throughout the day, it was there all the time. It was not a lot but it was there all the time. And at some point, the doctor said, “Okay, you have this issue with the lower back where the lower part of the spine is a bit loose from the most of your spine. And what happens is that the top part of the spine just slides inwards, down so it moves in your nervous system. That’s what makes it hurt. And you can be in a harness for a year. And then you have to sleep in it and everything and then I’m going to take it off. Probably after a couple of years you have to be again in the harness. That’s how we can do this. All we can just operate you and we stick we bring this together we bring two small pieces of bone to that and it has to grow together and then it just sticks there. So, at 16 I made the decision to do this and with the knowledge that I didn’t have to spend a year in a harness. I had to spend three months in hospital lying in bed because it had to heal. It just takes time until the bones heal or grow together. So, I was 16 and I was three months in a bed and I think there was a moment in my life where I learned to just be patient and to see also because I met a lot of people that had spine injury or all kinds of things that are really bad in hospital. You see them coming and going. And so yeah, I just learned to accept what was going on and just to wait the three months roll and go back to my normal life. So that was I think was difficult socially.
TAMAR: Yeah, it’s difficult judgmentally, you think about the fact that people are like probably “Oh, this guy’s . . .” And yeah, I mean, it’s definitely not easy. My uncle had to do it also. He had to grow a bone. He had an issue. And I don’t even remember he was a younger kid. I mean, it was like he was a kid. So, my father’s brother. I just know that he had a similar issue. And definitely he was out of commission for a year. I think he was living in a bed or hospital. So definitely not the easiest thing. I mean, you fall behind. It’s the rest of the world is spinning in your bed.
It’s like how I felt when I was in Coronavirus lockdown in the beginning. We were the first city in the United States to kind of shut down. And then two weeks later, the rest of the world shut down. But just to think that our world stop spinning and the rest of the world still, was just weird. And it’s completely you don’t like. I love the attitude about it. Yeah, I don’t really think about it as much of adversity. But you’re taking it in stride. And now I’m taking COVID in stride. Now everybody else is joining me but like you didn’t have that. So, kudos to you for the way you kind of handled that.
ERNO HANINK: Of course, when I was first operated, it really hurt. I was 16 and I tried. You’re feeling your back. And then every couple of hours they turn you because otherwise you get this. So, they have this large band and it turns slowly. But in beginning you’re not used to laying down for such a long period, especially when you’re like, “Okay, I can’t sit there.” So, I just asked the nurse, “Can you please?” When he told me, “No, you have to wait for just a little bit longer.” And he didn’t say how long but just a little bit longer, just try a little bit longer. After a week or so, maybe two weeks, if you get used to it, everything turns back to normal, in new normal. And at that time, actually, the Olympic Games were in progress. And for us, it was midnight. So, we just watched the Olympic Games, like through the night. And that was all fun. We still had fun. So, it was a great experience actually, looking back.
TAMAR: Oh, good for you. You’re able to make it work. I mean, it wasn’t easy. Awesome. I really do admire the attitude. And it’s funny because there’s not much I know about you besides what we’re talking about here. Just looking at who you are what you like, judging you by your surroundings here. I mean, again, the blue and like you have this positive attitude just looking, your bright and airy colors in your office. So, I really admire that. And I think ultimately everything comes down to attitude. I was just having this conversation. I forget if I had it on this podcast, but I had on a different podcast, if not this one. And somebody had reached out to me, he said, “My brother is going through a very hard time. How can I help him? He lost a mother in 2019. He just had a heart attack. He survived a heart attack and he’s going through marital struggles; he’s depressed.” And all of a sudden, I become an expert on depression. I’m not an expert on depression. But I can tell you that for me my depression that I had was definitely self-created. And it sounds to me like this guy’s depression is potentially self-created. When you are in bed, like a 10-year-old child anyway, just ruminating the word because when in bed, he was like lying in bed is a success. I used to say before is ruminating. If you’re ruminating and you’re thinking, in your mind, this is the worst thing that can happen to me, then yes, your physical body is going to manifest the mental; the emotions and the physical are both going to manifest itself on you, and you’re just going to be like a mess. Or you can start saying, “How can I change my attitude so that things are better, just like you said? And what is his brother like, once you’re there, you’re in trouble. You have to figure out how to get out. But the fact is, you need to be preventative to stop the rumination from overtaking your psyche, and then your body. Because that’s exactly how it started my depression. I’ve been through depression more than one time in my life. I’ve gone through really tough times. And looking back, there’s always a pattern that I basically have created for myself. I started thinking, this is crappy, and this is bad. And that’s going back to blaming things on the government; the government has ruined my life. All of a sudden, I lost giving up control, and saying the government controls me. And all of a sudden, once you lose control, it comes back to saying I am in control of my future. I want to change my mindset. It’s all about that. So, without really going into that, and no, I don’t want to talk about me so much. I want to talk about you. But I think it’s really, really important to kind of hone in on what you can do. And it comes down to like you said, it’s all about attitude. It’s all about being smart with how you act in every way, like your financials, your finances, and all the things. I think it’s super important. So again, I appreciate your inspirational story because it is definitely good.
ERNO HANINK: I think there’s a couple of things I just saw posted on Twitter, about this. But I think a couple things are really important in self-care. And if you do this physically, the mental state changes in a positive way as well. So, sleep, eating right, and exercising. So, I get up somewhere between five and six. I don’t have an alarm. I don’t use my phone in my bedroom. But I get up. Rhythm is very normal to me. But it also means that I get into bed at time I get into bed, like at 9:30 most of the days. Not all do that because they think it’s insane. But for me, I need to sleep (early) so that I get early. It’s funny, it’s just logical thinking. I cannot do it the other way.
ERNO HANINK: And eating right means don’t eat the bad food, just eat healthy food. So, you feel better. It’s not difficult to understand, but it makes you just feel better. And I’m moving right; I did a lot of just walking. We have great boots here, trails, everything you can do here. Start walking, and just walking. I do a lot of running now. But just exercising makes you feel good. And it also means that your mental health improves. So, these three things are very important for me to just start my day off every day just reading, writing, meditating or just journaling or anything to improve myself and to just get my thoughts out of my head and onto paper. I think that’s the most important part.
TAMAR: Yeah, yeah. I love your self-care regimen. I think that’s critically important. You need to self-care. As I said many times, self-care isn’t selfish. It’s extraordinarily important to kind of give your self-care a priority. I know that I will not go to bed, if I don’t prioritize self-care. So that means if I have to take a walk at 11:30 at night to get my steps in, or do my workout to break a sweat because that’s an objective of mine, then that’s what I’ll do. And it’s a habit-forming stuff. Like James Clear’s Atomic Habits, do something very small very easily but you’ll get there and hopefully once you get there, you maintain it. It’s easy for me. Yeah. Awesome. Cool. So, I love it. I’m glad you took the initiative on the self-care that was you get to talk to me. I guess there’s the last question. I don’t know if you’ve actually gotten to this when you listen to the podcasts in the past, but if you can give a piece of advice to an earlier version of yourself, that’s your common sense. I decided that came Episode 15, I realized that, “Oh, it’s a common scent part.” Yeah. If you can give a little bit of common sense to an earlier version of yourself, what would you tell.
ERNO HANNINK: I think, changing nothing. The thing is it has nothing to do with luck. I always work hard as most people look at it. If they feel I work hard, I don’t feel that way. I don’t feel I work hard. When I was in high school, I had fun until almost last year. And then I decided, “Okay, now I need to start working.” And I stopped getting great grades and to go to the right school. And I never stopped, I just I always went on, I always did the things that I thought would help me the most. I will not change the thing about that. And if I wouldn’t be in another universe, maybe I would have less look. In another universe, I maybe more. I have no idea. But that doesn’t matter. I think that the idea is that you just have to find your own way. Like you said, if somebody asked you about depression, and he said, you’re not an expert, but you have expertise, right.
TAMAR: But I have personal experience.
ERNON HANINK: That’s what I meant to say. There’s one experience, that’s you. So, you can use that in just a very small part of the rest of the world. Right. So, it’s just one experience, you’re not experienced, you’re not an expert in anything. Just that’s me, right? Same thing, I have just one experience. And I can use it in my accounting people, but it doesn’t probably apply to them. Because they have a different background, different experiences, different future, whatever. But what I do is I try to read as much as I can. So, I get all these inputs and see if somebody asked me a question if I can give them some new insights with ease in process, but I just read, learn and share. And I don’t think I would have changed that. That’s the same thing I did all my life.
TAMAR: Yeah, it’s good. No regrets at all. I like it. Yeah, awesome. Well done. It’s interesting. The first time someone’s like, “Oh, yeah. I trust yourself. I mean, yeah, we technically aren’t. You’re saying all the things. Yeah, awesome. Well, thank you. Where can our listeners find you?
ERNO HANNINK: Yeah, of course, it’s always kind of interesting. I am on Twitter. I think Twitter, LinkedIn, it is my name: e, r, n, o, h, a, n, n, i, n, k. I have a blog in NL which is in Dutch. Obviously, I’m on Podcast, where most of the episodes are in Dutch but some of them in English. I think like 15%. I have some really great guests there, too. And I have an English website, ernohannink.com, but it’s not really updated.
TAMAR: So, what’s the English website?
ERNO HANNINK: ernohannink.com. So, there’s my name. It’s not really updated.
TAMAR: Yeah. So, your stable presence is Twitter. Stick with that.
ERNO HANNINK: Yeah, I think Twitter is more for me. It’s more a personal thing. And LinkedIn is more like a business thing. So that’s how I kind of separate them.
TAMAR: Okay. Sounds good to me. Awesome. Cool. Well, thank you so much. This has been great. I love learning about you. And I just I just love your attitude. It’s very infectious.
ERNO HANNINK: I love talking to you, Tamar because I’ve seen you on the site, through Twitter, mostly. And I love what you did, and also the positivity about the situation, and then the launching of your new brand, everything. So that’s why I actually replied.
TAMAR: Yeah, I appreciate that. You said it’s been a little time. I took a hiatus from Twitter for about seven years. So, coming back to that I’m glad there’s some people who are still following me. It’s funny because I have like 36,000 followers, and I would say 98% of those people are not active. Everyone’s wondering why so many followers. I’m sorry, I’m making fun of their voice. But unfortunately, these people are quality followers. For the most part, when you take a break, I mean with the exception of as I say 98%, when you take a break for that long, people forget that you’re there. Most people probably are not even active themselves. So, it’s really interesting to see the dynamic of the ebbs and the flows of social media. I do have a stable presence, if you will, because I’m back again. Now, all of a sudden, you see me as a completely different person than you might have seen me in 2010, which is sort of the point.
ERNO HANINK: Yeah. Thank you, Tamar.